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	<title>Comments on: The Other Side of the Missionary Discussions</title>
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	<link>http://onedudesms.wordpress.com/2007/02/12/the-other-side-of-the-missionary-discussions/</link>
	<description>These are the personal studies of one guy on his spiritual journey through Mormonism. Many articles, books and podcasts reviewed and reflected upon.</description>
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		<title>By: Brinneniegiok</title>
		<link>http://onedudesms.wordpress.com/2007/02/12/the-other-side-of-the-missionary-discussions/#comment-4801</link>
		<dc:creator>Brinneniegiok</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 13:03:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onedudesms.wordpress.com/2007/02/12/the-other-side-of-the-missionary-discussions/#comment-4801</guid>
		<description>very  intresting</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>very  intresting</p>
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		<title>By: Steve M.</title>
		<link>http://onedudesms.wordpress.com/2007/02/12/the-other-side-of-the-missionary-discussions/#comment-639</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Feb 2007 20:30:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onedudesms.wordpress.com/2007/02/12/the-other-side-of-the-missionary-discussions/#comment-639</guid>
		<description>Mark, thanks for sharing.

I can relate to some of your feelings, even though I haven&#039;t yet &quot;outed myself&quot; as a NOM/liberal Mormon/partial disbeliever/whatever to my parents or in-laws. Your experience perfectly describes my fears about what would happen if I were to come out about it.

For the most part, I can go to church and do a lot of things that most Mormons do without experiencing any cognitive dissonance. But I kind of have to &quot;fake it&quot; on occasion, which I really, really dislike. Like, my wife&#039;s parents want to go with us to the temple this weekend. I still have a current recommend, and I wouldn&#039;t consider myself &quot;unworthy&quot; per se, but I don&#039;t feel totally right about going. But I&#039;ll go this weekend, to appease my in-laws. I don&#039;t know if it&#039;s right or not, but it&#039;s one of those dilemmas that I&#039;ve got to deal with.

&lt;i&gt;I won’t say “I’ve moved on” from Mormonism, or even from Mormon Studies, but I don’t spend as much time every day worrying about the possible ways I can again make Mormonism believable to myself (does that make sense?)&lt;/i&gt;

That definitely makes sense. I used to wonder if I could somehow &quot;salvage&quot; a traditional testimony, and although I was studying Mormonism &lt;i&gt;a lot&lt;/i&gt;, for a while I wouldn&#039;t let myself connect the dots. I wanted to genuinely believe like I had on my mission. I wanted to be the model Mormon son, brother, son-in-law, and husband that I was expected to be.

Then I had this dream that I was on a mission again, and that I was being transferred to a new area. In my dream, I imagined myself sitting in discussions telling people about Joseph Smith translating the Book of Mormon from gold plates and being literally visited by resurrected beings, and I knew I couldn&#039;t do it anymore. So I called the APs and told them I was going home.

That&#039;s kind of when it clicked for me. And suddenly I wasn&#039;t struggling with my beliefs, but felt comfortable and happy with the new beliefs I was forming. Of course, trying to fit these beliefs into the Mormon lifestyle is a challenge I&#039;ve continued to deal with.

Fortunately, I have a great, understanding wife who&#039;s kind of going through a transformation of her beliefs as well (although it&#039;s much different for her). We&#039;ve supported each other, and in the end, I&#039;m sure we&#039;ll make our decision about what to do with Mormonism together. But for now, we&#039;re trying to stick it out.

Wow, I don&#039;t know where all that came from. I guess your thoughts really got me thinking. Really, thanks for sharing.

&lt;i&gt;I am still studying a ton, however. I’ve been reading some books by Skeptics like Michael Shermer, Carl Sagan and Thomas Kida.&lt;/i&gt;

And you&#039;re calling &lt;i&gt;me&lt;/i&gt; well-read?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark, thanks for sharing.</p>
<p>I can relate to some of your feelings, even though I haven&#8217;t yet &#8220;outed myself&#8221; as a NOM/liberal Mormon/partial disbeliever/whatever to my parents or in-laws. Your experience perfectly describes my fears about what would happen if I were to come out about it.</p>
<p>For the most part, I can go to church and do a lot of things that most Mormons do without experiencing any cognitive dissonance. But I kind of have to &#8220;fake it&#8221; on occasion, which I really, really dislike. Like, my wife&#8217;s parents want to go with us to the temple this weekend. I still have a current recommend, and I wouldn&#8217;t consider myself &#8220;unworthy&#8221; per se, but I don&#8217;t feel totally right about going. But I&#8217;ll go this weekend, to appease my in-laws. I don&#8217;t know if it&#8217;s right or not, but it&#8217;s one of those dilemmas that I&#8217;ve got to deal with.</p>
<p><i>I won’t say “I’ve moved on” from Mormonism, or even from Mormon Studies, but I don’t spend as much time every day worrying about the possible ways I can again make Mormonism believable to myself (does that make sense?)</i></p>
<p>That definitely makes sense. I used to wonder if I could somehow &#8220;salvage&#8221; a traditional testimony, and although I was studying Mormonism <i>a lot</i>, for a while I wouldn&#8217;t let myself connect the dots. I wanted to genuinely believe like I had on my mission. I wanted to be the model Mormon son, brother, son-in-law, and husband that I was expected to be.</p>
<p>Then I had this dream that I was on a mission again, and that I was being transferred to a new area. In my dream, I imagined myself sitting in discussions telling people about Joseph Smith translating the Book of Mormon from gold plates and being literally visited by resurrected beings, and I knew I couldn&#8217;t do it anymore. So I called the APs and told them I was going home.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s kind of when it clicked for me. And suddenly I wasn&#8217;t struggling with my beliefs, but felt comfortable and happy with the new beliefs I was forming. Of course, trying to fit these beliefs into the Mormon lifestyle is a challenge I&#8217;ve continued to deal with.</p>
<p>Fortunately, I have a great, understanding wife who&#8217;s kind of going through a transformation of her beliefs as well (although it&#8217;s much different for her). We&#8217;ve supported each other, and in the end, I&#8217;m sure we&#8217;ll make our decision about what to do with Mormonism together. But for now, we&#8217;re trying to stick it out.</p>
<p>Wow, I don&#8217;t know where all that came from. I guess your thoughts really got me thinking. Really, thanks for sharing.</p>
<p><i>I am still studying a ton, however. I’ve been reading some books by Skeptics like Michael Shermer, Carl Sagan and Thomas Kida.</i></p>
<p>And you&#8217;re calling <i>me</i> well-read?</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://onedudesms.wordpress.com/2007/02/12/the-other-side-of-the-missionary-discussions/#comment-638</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Feb 2007 19:39:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onedudesms.wordpress.com/2007/02/12/the-other-side-of-the-missionary-discussions/#comment-638</guid>
		<description>Nice to hear from you, Steve M!  I&#039;m glad you&#039;ve kept blogging all this time.  It&#039;s been really fun accompanying you as your journey unfolds little by little.  We have many things in common, I can tell from our blogs (except for you being well-read and me being well...slept).

I don&#039;t know who would care, but I think I&#039;ll share the reason why I haven&#039;t blogged for a while in this comment section (it&#039;s a nice &quot;hidden&quot; place where people who know me might not find it).  My time off has been basically for 3 reasons:  

1.  My story with Mormonism has taken a somewhat dark turn.  I still go to Church every now and then (as a complete NOM), but the &quot;issues&quot;/problems I&#039;m going through, which I would normally blog about, now deal mostly with family and in-laws, and it&#039;s almost making me sick.  It is sad.  It is frustrating.  It was even infuriating, one particular day.  And I don&#039;t want to embarrass anyone close to me  by sharing these issues we&#039;re going through.  Suffice it to say, however, my marriage has been very strong throughout all of this- it&#039;s the relationships with parents and in-laws that are struggling.

Some days this constant battle pushes me far far away from Mormonism, other days it makes me want to &quot;fake it&quot;, just for relationship purposes.  When I&#039;m around family I hate having that damn &quot;elephant in the room&quot;.  Everyone in my family knows about my dis-belief except my little bro&#039;s and sister and it&#039;s hard for the older folk to be accepting and just deal with it, move on, love on.

2.  I won&#039;t say &quot;I&#039;ve moved on&quot; from Mormonism, or even from Mormon Studies, but I don&#039;t spend as much time every day worrying about the possible ways I can again make Mormonism believable to myself (does that make sense?).  Yeah, I really can&#039;t &quot;leave it alone&quot;, quite yet, and I still want it to be true again, but I&#039;ve almost passed out from holding my breath.

Hopefully I can be NOM (to better my familial relationships- the Church is &lt;i&gt;literally everything&lt;/i&gt; to my parents and in-laws, so I don&#039;t see why I shouldn&#039;t put up with it every once in a while and leave my integrity at home.  What matters most is that I just strive to be the best husband and dad I can be, at home.

So back to the 2nd reason, I just haven&#039;t been pouring over Mormon Studies and issues as of late.  Not like before, at least.

3.  I am still studying a ton, however.  I&#039;ve been reading some books by Skeptics like Michael Shermer, Carl Sagan and Thomas Kida.  My favorite podcast now (well at least it&#039;s right up there with Mormon Stories) is The Skeptic&#039;s Guide to the Universe.  So the 3rd reason I haven&#039;t blogged here very much is that I&#039;m more interested in Science, Secular Humanism, and any truth, anywhere I can find it.  I blog about things other than Moism on my other blog http://markii.wordpress.com.

Thanks for listening.  You have no idea the amount of drama the Church has caused me as of late.  I really appreciate you listening, though, whoever&#039;s out there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice to hear from you, Steve M!  I&#8217;m glad you&#8217;ve kept blogging all this time.  It&#8217;s been really fun accompanying you as your journey unfolds little by little.  We have many things in common, I can tell from our blogs (except for you being well-read and me being well&#8230;slept).</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know who would care, but I think I&#8217;ll share the reason why I haven&#8217;t blogged for a while in this comment section (it&#8217;s a nice &#8220;hidden&#8221; place where people who know me might not find it).  My time off has been basically for 3 reasons:  </p>
<p>1.  My story with Mormonism has taken a somewhat dark turn.  I still go to Church every now and then (as a complete NOM), but the &#8220;issues&#8221;/problems I&#8217;m going through, which I would normally blog about, now deal mostly with family and in-laws, and it&#8217;s almost making me sick.  It is sad.  It is frustrating.  It was even infuriating, one particular day.  And I don&#8217;t want to embarrass anyone close to me  by sharing these issues we&#8217;re going through.  Suffice it to say, however, my marriage has been very strong throughout all of this- it&#8217;s the relationships with parents and in-laws that are struggling.</p>
<p>Some days this constant battle pushes me far far away from Mormonism, other days it makes me want to &#8220;fake it&#8221;, just for relationship purposes.  When I&#8217;m around family I hate having that damn &#8220;elephant in the room&#8221;.  Everyone in my family knows about my dis-belief except my little bro&#8217;s and sister and it&#8217;s hard for the older folk to be accepting and just deal with it, move on, love on.</p>
<p>2.  I won&#8217;t say &#8220;I&#8217;ve moved on&#8221; from Mormonism, or even from Mormon Studies, but I don&#8217;t spend as much time every day worrying about the possible ways I can again make Mormonism believable to myself (does that make sense?).  Yeah, I really can&#8217;t &#8220;leave it alone&#8221;, quite yet, and I still want it to be true again, but I&#8217;ve almost passed out from holding my breath.</p>
<p>Hopefully I can be NOM (to better my familial relationships- the Church is <i>literally everything</i> to my parents and in-laws, so I don&#8217;t see why I shouldn&#8217;t put up with it every once in a while and leave my integrity at home.  What matters most is that I just strive to be the best husband and dad I can be, at home.</p>
<p>So back to the 2nd reason, I just haven&#8217;t been pouring over Mormon Studies and issues as of late.  Not like before, at least.</p>
<p>3.  I am still studying a ton, however.  I&#8217;ve been reading some books by Skeptics like Michael Shermer, Carl Sagan and Thomas Kida.  My favorite podcast now (well at least it&#8217;s right up there with Mormon Stories) is The Skeptic&#8217;s Guide to the Universe.  So the 3rd reason I haven&#8217;t blogged here very much is that I&#8217;m more interested in Science, Secular Humanism, and any truth, anywhere I can find it.  I blog about things other than Moism on my other blog <a href="http://markii.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow">http://markii.wordpress.com</a>.</p>
<p>Thanks for listening.  You have no idea the amount of drama the Church has caused me as of late.  I really appreciate you listening, though, whoever&#8217;s out there.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Steve M</title>
		<link>http://onedudesms.wordpress.com/2007/02/12/the-other-side-of-the-missionary-discussions/#comment-637</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Feb 2007 18:50:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onedudesms.wordpress.com/2007/02/12/the-other-side-of-the-missionary-discussions/#comment-637</guid>
		<description>Nice to see you blogging again!

I think it would be beneficial for LDS missionaries to read or listen to accounts from former &quot;investigators&quot; about how the discussions felt from their point of view.

Listening to Julia Sweeney&#039;s account, it was obvious that what the missionaries were trying to say and what she heard weren&#039;t always the same thing. It was also apparent that she embellished (or maybe just confused) the missionaries&#039; message with stuff she probably heard elsewhere (like about the peep stone in the hat).

In any case, I think the missionary discussions are terribly outdated and ineffective. Even the new-and-improved &quot;Preach My Gospel&quot; versions. In fact, I think it would take a pretty dramatic change in LDS missionary philosophy and culture in order for missionaries to gain any credibility when speaking with your average, skeptical Westerner.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice to see you blogging again!</p>
<p>I think it would be beneficial for LDS missionaries to read or listen to accounts from former &#8220;investigators&#8221; about how the discussions felt from their point of view.</p>
<p>Listening to Julia Sweeney&#8217;s account, it was obvious that what the missionaries were trying to say and what she heard weren&#8217;t always the same thing. It was also apparent that she embellished (or maybe just confused) the missionaries&#8217; message with stuff she probably heard elsewhere (like about the peep stone in the hat).</p>
<p>In any case, I think the missionary discussions are terribly outdated and ineffective. Even the new-and-improved &#8220;Preach My Gospel&#8221; versions. In fact, I think it would take a pretty dramatic change in LDS missionary philosophy and culture in order for missionaries to gain any credibility when speaking with your average, skeptical Westerner.</p>
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