Comments on: Do Feelings = Knowledge? http://onedudesms.wordpress.com/2006/10/23/do-feelings-knowledge/ These are the personal studies of one guy on his spiritual journey through Mormonism. Many articles, books and podcasts reviewed and reflected upon. Wed, 04 Nov 2009 09:42:08 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Mark Parker http://onedudesms.wordpress.com/2006/10/23/do-feelings-knowledge/#comment-4299 Mark Parker Mon, 03 Dec 2007 14:05:15 +0000 http://onedudesms.wordpress.com/2006/10/23/do-feelings-knowledge/#comment-4299 Leave a reply; Ok, I can totaly appreciate this point of view, I was a convert to the church, just a normal young Australian happily living with his girlfriend, believing and reading the Bible a little, but not a church goer at all, all that I knew of were quite flawed and it never occured to me that there might be a Church that was consistent with what I read, or that had a connection with Heaven. When missionaries told us about Joseph Smith, It was so exciting and consistent with what I'd been reading in the Bible, and for various good reasons I believed his testimony. I spent a lot of time comparing BofM and Bible for myself, plus D&C etc, and found increadable harmony between them all, all this time I was experiencing 'feelings' which looking back I would attribute to the Holy Ghost, some times it was quite strong, I thought maybe it was the Holy Ghost because it was always associated with reading and contemplating the scriptures, but definitely wouldn't have said I knew absolutely. We were taught about tithing so straight away started paying it, to test the promises, which made it a bit difficult for the branch president because we were not members, he had no records. We lived the word of wisdom about the day after we learned it, even though we had agreed beforehand if the Missionaries told us we had to stop drinking we would go no further, but it was Christ giving that law and it had such great promises that we tried it out. It took longer than we wanted to get legal, Aust law makes you wait 30 days, cooling off period? To get a marriage licence, plus had to organize with our families. Anyway by and by we joined the Church and I'm looking out for something special at getting confirmed, nothing unusual. We were living about 150 miles away from where the Church was and driving home we did have wonderful feelings of peace and happiness and also of having done what was right, and were convinced of that, so to us we had a testimony, an assurance. So who wanted the priesthood real bad? Who wanted to tell everyone he could about the Church? Then it started every time I prayed about the latter, strange feeling, just like I had right then, seems to start at the head like a wave, now I wasn't praying to have that feeling, but to teach people or tell them about what great thing I had found. It seemed everytime I prayed about that the feeling got stronger, as if I was made of water and a ripple was running through me, it really got me wondering, It was getting so strong it was becomeing uncomfortable in a physical sense, was it God doing it or was I responsible through some sort of mind thing. I figured that Moroni said; through the power of the Holy Ghost you may 'Know' and as I thought perhaps these experiences were from me, it was not enough to be sure. This is where it's a personal thing, I'm still going to tell you what happened, but it would be better if you were to experience it for yourself it would freak you out(understatement), but also make you very happy, and you would probably say you 'knew' something. OK, my main problem was being sure this reoccuring 'feeling' was comeing from God or was it being some how generated by me, self hypnotism or mind induced thing. I wasn't particularly looking for a more definite witness but these were my thoughts, and waking up during the night, I began praying silently again, same subject. My wife was sleeping beside me. As soon as I started praying a very physical thing happened along with an extreem amount of noise, a beating sound, and a very external power had hold of me. When I say external if someone jumped on me from the roof thats external, no chance of my mind somehow conjuring it up. No one jumped on me but this extreemly powerful external force came and had hold of me, accompanied by a lot of loud noise, this freaked me right out, I was really afraid It would take me into the presence of God, and my repentance was a work in progress, (still is) I did a bit of praying I think and it let me go. The thing that I felt was that if that power who's depth I felt were directed into the Earth it could split it open. I could not believe my wife could have slept through that, but she did. It still comes down to how you relate to what you expeerience, to me it was quite sufficient to believe I knew something. I knew it came in response to a sincere prayer, and it was external, and I felt the edge of a power that was unbelievably enormous. Since then I've wondered about the Holy Ghost and the pulsing or beating noise I heard/felt. If the Holy Ghost descends like a dove, maybe it's decent is comparable to what you'd experience with a dove landing on you because they come down beating their wings sort of backwards to slow and land gently, it would be similar. I've been shown a few things in dreams, and I think to show me where they came from in the begining I experienced that same thing to a lesser degree, but enough to recognise. But you are still left to work out pretty much whats going on where its comeing from, I think thats through the glass bit, though you can always ask. If I have a dream of that type, on a gospel theme I take it seriously and figure thats my personal revelation. If I saw someone somewhere and was asked to testify to it I'm as likely to say 'I think so it looked like him' if I'd been talking with him I'd be more confident to say yep it was him. I'm quite confident to say The Book of Mormon comes from God, and that Joseph Smith is a true prophet of God, because there is a connection with Heaven and the powers of Heaven. I think someone mentioned a scientific formula, a law, there is one; B X W = F where B is belief W is works and F is faith, useing this formula you can see how faith, that preceeds the miracle can be easily increased. If someone has even total belief 10B and 0 good works 10 x 0 = 0 faith. If a not so sure person manages a reserved 2B and 8 for good works they will come out with 16 Faith, which I would think was extreemly good, and they are in a position to gain a strong testimony. Anyway this is my attempt at trying to explain this situation a bit. Leave a reply; Ok, I can totaly appreciate this point of view, I was a convert to the church, just a normal young Australian happily living with his girlfriend, believing and reading the Bible a little, but not a church goer at all, all that I knew of were quite flawed and it never occured to me that there might be a Church that was consistent with what I read, or that had a connection with Heaven.
When missionaries told us about Joseph Smith, It was so exciting and consistent with what I’d been reading in the Bible, and for various good reasons I believed his testimony. I spent a lot of time comparing BofM and Bible for myself, plus D&C etc, and found increadable harmony between them all, all this time I was experiencing ‘feelings’ which looking back I would attribute to the Holy Ghost, some times it was quite strong, I thought maybe it was the Holy Ghost because it was always associated with reading and contemplating the scriptures, but definitely wouldn’t have said I knew absolutely.
We were taught about tithing so straight away started paying it, to test the promises, which made it a bit difficult for the branch president because we were not members, he had no records.
We lived the word of wisdom about the day after we learned it, even though we had agreed beforehand if the Missionaries told us we had to stop drinking we would go no further, but it was Christ giving that law and it had such great promises that we tried it out.
It took longer than we wanted to get legal, Aust law makes you wait 30 days, cooling off period? To get a marriage licence, plus had to organize with our families. Anyway by and by we joined the Church and I’m looking out for something special at getting confirmed, nothing unusual. We were living about 150 miles away from where the Church was and driving home we did have wonderful feelings of peace and happiness and also of having done what was right, and were convinced of that, so to us we had a testimony, an assurance.
So who wanted the priesthood real bad? Who wanted to tell everyone he could about the Church? Then it started every time I prayed about the latter, strange feeling, just like I had right then, seems to start at the head like a wave, now I wasn’t praying to have that feeling, but to teach people or tell them about what great thing I had found. It seemed everytime I prayed about that the feeling got stronger, as if I was made of water and a ripple was running through me, it really got me wondering, It was getting so strong it was becomeing uncomfortable in a physical sense, was it God doing it or was I responsible through some sort of mind thing. I figured that Moroni said; through the power of the Holy Ghost you may ‘Know’ and as I thought perhaps these experiences were from me, it was not enough to be sure. This is where it’s a personal thing, I’m still going to tell you what happened, but it would be better if you were to experience it for yourself it would freak you out(understatement), but also make you very happy, and you would probably say you ‘knew’ something.
OK, my main problem was being sure this reoccuring ‘feeling’ was comeing from God or was it being some how generated by me, self hypnotism or mind induced thing. I wasn’t particularly looking for a more definite witness but these were my thoughts, and waking up during the night, I began praying silently again, same subject. My wife was sleeping beside me. As soon as I started praying a very physical thing happened along with an extreem amount of noise, a beating sound, and a very external power had hold of me. When I say external if someone jumped on me from the roof thats external, no chance of my mind somehow conjuring it up. No one jumped on me but this extreemly powerful external force came and had hold of me, accompanied by a lot of loud noise, this freaked me right out, I was really afraid It would take me into the presence of God, and my repentance was a work in progress, (still is) I did a bit of praying I think and it let me go. The thing that I felt was that if that power who’s depth I felt were directed into the Earth it could split it open. I could not believe my wife could have slept through that, but she did. It still comes down to how you relate to what you expeerience, to me it was quite sufficient to believe I knew something. I knew it came in response to a sincere prayer, and it was external, and I felt the edge of a power that was unbelievably enormous. Since then I’ve wondered about the Holy Ghost and the pulsing or beating noise I heard/felt. If the Holy Ghost descends like a dove, maybe it’s decent is comparable to what you’d experience with a dove landing on you because they come down beating their wings sort of backwards to slow and land gently, it would be similar.
I’ve been shown a few things in dreams, and I think to show me where they came from in the begining I experienced that same thing to a lesser degree, but enough to recognise. But you are still left to work out pretty much whats going on where its comeing from, I think thats through the glass bit, though you can always ask. If I have a dream of that type, on a gospel theme I take it seriously and figure thats my personal revelation. If I saw someone somewhere and was asked to testify to it I’m as likely to say ‘I think so it looked like him’ if I’d been talking with him I’d be more confident to say yep it was him. I’m quite confident to say The Book of Mormon comes from God, and that Joseph Smith is a true prophet of God, because there is a connection with Heaven and the powers of Heaven.
I think someone mentioned a scientific formula, a law, there is one; B X W = F where B is belief W is works and F is faith, useing this formula you can see how faith, that preceeds the miracle can be easily increased. If someone has even total belief 10B and 0 good works 10 x 0 = 0 faith. If a not so sure person manages a reserved 2B and 8 for good works they will come out with 16 Faith, which I would think was extreemly good, and they are in a position to gain a strong testimony. Anyway this is my attempt at trying to explain this situation a bit.

]]> By: Joss http://onedudesms.wordpress.com/2006/10/23/do-feelings-knowledge/#comment-3842 Joss Tue, 06 Nov 2007 03:42:07 +0000 http://onedudesms.wordpress.com/2006/10/23/do-feelings-knowledge/#comment-3842 I've thought about this for years and struggle with it almost every time I attend church or talk about religion with many folks. It's nice to know I'm not the only one. I’ve thought about this for years and struggle with it almost every time I attend church or talk about religion with many folks. It’s nice to know I’m not the only one.

]]> By: Mark G. http://onedudesms.wordpress.com/2006/10/23/do-feelings-knowledge/#comment-23 Mark G. Tue, 21 Nov 2006 06:26:08 +0000 http://onedudesms.wordpress.com/2006/10/23/do-feelings-knowledge/#comment-23 Well said. Thanks for the comment! Well said. Thanks for the comment!

]]> By: Steve M. http://onedudesms.wordpress.com/2006/10/23/do-feelings-knowledge/#comment-22 Steve M. Tue, 21 Nov 2006 06:25:24 +0000 http://onedudesms.wordpress.com/2006/10/23/do-feelings-knowledge/#comment-22 <em>So what do we know? One may know that they "felt something". To say that this feeling was "the Holy Ghost" one would already be interpreting these feelings according to their world-view. Just because their religion has interpreted these things for them, it does not make their interpretation fact- just belief, at best.</em> I think this is a great point. A feeling is so subjective and can be interpreted in so many different ways. I've felt good when reading the Bible and the Book of Mormon, but if I say that these feelings are from God/the Holy Ghost/whatever, I'm already making a subjective judgment. I might have just been feeling good. I mean, I've felt warm fuzzies when reading novels or when watching movies or when looking at art in a museum, but I never passed these feelings off as the Spirit. Spirituality is a super subjective thing, no matter how objective organized religions try to make it. Which is why I think that churches should exist as a resource, as a place of worship, and a provider of opportunities for Christian service, but not as a mediator between man and the divine. So what do we know? One may know that they “felt something”. To say that this feeling was “the Holy Ghost” one would already be interpreting these feelings according to their world-view. Just because their religion has interpreted these things for them, it does not make their interpretation fact- just belief, at best.

I think this is a great point. A feeling is so subjective and can be interpreted in so many different ways. I’ve felt good when reading the Bible and the Book of Mormon, but if I say that these feelings are from God/the Holy Ghost/whatever, I’m already making a subjective judgment. I might have just been feeling good. I mean, I’ve felt warm fuzzies when reading novels or when watching movies or when looking at art in a museum, but I never passed these feelings off as the Spirit.

Spirituality is a super subjective thing, no matter how objective organized religions try to make it. Which is why I think that churches should exist as a resource, as a place of worship, and a provider of opportunities for Christian service, but not as a mediator between man and the divine.

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